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The View From Here

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Dee
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Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:26 am

Moonchime wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:36 am
The more "thorough" of the 2 reviews of my poem from Future Learn, the first review was so short I was grateful for something more than a couple of lines although both reviews took the poem on a superficial level:

How does it make you feel?
I really like this poem. It gives me the feeling of looking out of the window and taking the time to zoom in and pay attention to detail on the most minute areas of a garden in a creative way.

Can you identify any patterns in the poem?
There's is a bit of alliteration in the 4th quatrain with the f sound first: for flight, fight. Then the S sound: singing, summer's sighs. Then the c sound: cautious, caterpillar, hiccoughs. Then finally w: wall and wondering.

What are the puzzles in the poem?
I think the poem was wonderfully written there weren't many puzzles. "unflinching as the mirror that bares the truth of years" was a puzzle to me as I cannot picture what this could mean. The rest of the poem was creatively description and could imagine all of it just perfectly.
Well, without meaning to sound like a bitch (but I will), the reviewer on FL has done well at spotting some alliterations. :72:

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Dee
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Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:02 am

Yes the fairy became a symbol of something whose aim was thwarted, who could never reach the full potential that it was made for. Likewise with the caterpillar; there were so many things that could happen to it before it ever, if ever, got to fly; the fear of never reaching the completeness of who you are meant to be...
You have communicated this Fear so delicately throughout the poem, Kathy, image by image.

I often wonder about this too, though it doesn’t manifest itself with the darker tones of Fear for me. Not these days anyhow. I am quite familiar with it though.

Interestingly, a lot of people seem to be preoccupied with a version of this thought at the moment: I hear a lot of people contemplating whether they’ve made most of their lockdown experience, whether they have fully utilised this enforced time at home. Have they learnt and developed themselves enough? Have they been creative enough? I see a lot of people seem to be pretty hard on themselves.

Lockdown was a heightened and concentrated experience of our normal lives in a way. The busy got busier, the lazy got lazier. :57:

But also this has been a strangely twisted and emotionally hugely challenging time. It wasn’t all just a straightforward gift of time, even if at times it felt like that, for which we could all be grateful. Other times it felt debilitatingly draining on spirits.

I hear people saying “I wish I’ve done *** or more of *** ...“ but of course there’s only point in thinking that if, having not done it yet, they will now aim to make time for those things. Otherwise it’s just looking back at a stretch of time in a negative: things we haven’t done. When we clearly should be pleased with what we have actually achieved.

There is no point in comparing ourselves to super duper people who have learned three languages, written a novel, painted a fresco and mastered baking sourdough bread in the past few months. Good for them! The chances are they’d be lamenting that they’ve not learnt to play the harp or done any papier-mâché. This feeling of underachieving is a curse for most people, if we let it.
I’m probably sounding like a broken record but mindfulness is such a great help in coming to friendly terms with this issue. Of course, it will never stop raising its head. But good to have ways to tame the beast!


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Moonchime
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Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:49 am

You are so right Mz D about how pointless comparison is and the prattling worries that bring us down.
Lots to think about here Mz D - :08:
I wasn't thinking in the terms of Covid Lockdown when I wrote that - I was thinking in much broader terms; not how many things one might or might not have done or achieved, but how true to the self one manages to be; how authentic.

You could have lists of achievements and brave deeds as long as your arm but if you're not content in yourself - in who you are - then it's all for nothing.
That is not to say that means everything must go to plan - not at all - after all life is all about things going awry most of the time - it's much more about how you react to that and feeling that you know how you want to be, and that you can be true to that.
There is something very tragic about someone who dies in the turmoil of trying to find that peace of who they are - of feeling they are lost...

Now that is a difficult thing to explore as it often takes a lifetime for most people to really know themselves and that is the great adventure, as long as you feel you're making progress and don't lose your way completely.

I think we all want to feel that we have a right to be here - that we belong - no matter how different we may feel.

I often wonder about this too, though it doesn’t manifest itself with the darker tones of Fear for me.


I think much of "Fear" is connected with the worry of loss - your loved ones, your purpose, your sense of belonging, your home, your freedom, or of failure (although that is connected to the others). Are your darker tones somewhere there? I totally understand where you are coming from - in a way your question "where am I without my choir?" is similar to the thistle fairy without its dance.

The problem is with fear is that it often doesn't have a sense of perspective; if given a chance it can possess you and what might have seemed on the "lighter" tones of Fear becomes as dark as anything you can imagine. In total darkness there are no shades of grey.


This feeling of underachieving is a curse for most people, if we let it.
I’m probably sounding like a broken record but mindfulness is such a great help in coming to friendly terms with this issue. Of course, it will never stop raising its head. But good to have ways to tame the beast!


Absolutely!!!! :72:

I fear :57: I am prattling on now in realms that are very hard to express well and, of course, I totally agree with you about mindfulness and the fact that we should focus on what we have achieved and not
what we haven't. :72:

A couple of interesting quotes about "comparison" -


“Comparison is the thief of joy.” Theodore Roosevelt

“I will not reason and compare: my business is to create.” William Blake


I fancy NR quoted one of these somewhere else in the harbour.

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Lori
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:50 am

Moonchime wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:51 am
In my poem I used the view onto my back garden with "Fear" as my abstract noun - although to be honest I couldn't stop wandering into Loss and Grief - although they're all connected so I stuck with it.

The View from Here

The garden shimmers
in brittle heat,
while empty chairs full of ghosts
face the sun.

A black veil guards blueberries
against hidden birds, like the Spectre
of Fear that pads
into my room at night

and settles like a jealous lover,
while a thistle fairy floats
into a spider’s web,
a dance captured, crafted

for flight, not fight, only singing
on summer’s sighs.
A cautious caterpillar hiccoughs
along the wall, wondering

if it will ever fly,
and the grass worries
itself brown in the sun’s glare, unflinching
as the mirror that bares
the truth of years.


KK
Ah me *sweet sighs*! You've gone and done it again Mz. K. I am chasing you down beautiful swaths of imagery.

I knew I was in trouble the very first verse where the "empty chairs full of ghosts face the sun". This quite stabbed at my heart - I felt it palpably. There are few places where people dear to us gather in so intimate a setting. The garden is such a place and perhaps a long dinner table.

This garden is brittle and void of the animation it held throughout time; smiling grandparents sitting and watching the antics of kids in the yard, wisps of kids, one knee up, dreaming in the daylight...chattering as they retie a shoe perhaps, loves and friends - all empty in this moment save the faded and moving cinematic footage of memories. This single line is incredibly evocative and stark. There is so much in that single statement. Good. God.


A black veil guards blueberries
against hidden birds, like the Spectre
of Fear that pads
into my room at night


This verse is so interesting to me. The tangible netting protecting berries melds into a black veil of the Spectre of Fear. And the Spectre is "padding" into the poet's room at night. I like that choice of words because it lends itself to the feeling this is a recurrent event - a constant. The spectre doesn't crash in or suddenly menace, this "agent of angst" is a constant nightly companion. Very sad.

and settles like a jealous lover,
while a thistle fairy floats
into a spider’s web,
a dance captured, crafted

for flight, not fight, only singing
on summer’s sighs.
A cautious caterpillar hiccoughs
along the wall, wondering [\color]

We are back to the netting settling "like a jealous lover" - relentless. And the image of the thistle fairy floating into the web brings the reader back into the moment and into the garden in a nearly dreamlike state where this delicate thing fulfills its cycle of life - it's dance captured. Really beautiful simplicity done so very well here. "singing on summer's sighs" #%@#!!!! (My mother doesn't approve of overt swearing so just know I lost it there for a second.) Then the sweet caterpillar and a scant moment of levity with the descriptive "hiccoughing".

if it will ever fly,
and the grass worries
itself brown in the sun’s glare, unflinching
as the mirror that bares
the truth of years.[\color]

Beautiful and, again, stark ending. You have personified exquisitely so many things in this piece. I love how each verse ends and then the following finishes the thought and takes it in such surprising directions.

I love this poem very much, Mz. K. It spoke to me deeply at this time in my life. It is filled with melancholy with lovely picturesque little twists that drive the heart of it home. Such beautiful crafting, amazing lady!

#%@#!!!!

Now, I shall read the other entries above when I get back from an appointment, speaking of realities! Ha!

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Dee
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:17 am

Moonchime wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:49 am
You are so right Mz D about how pointless comparison is and the prattling worries that bring us down.
Lots to think about here Mz D - :08:
I wasn't thinking in the terms of Covid Lockdown when I wrote that - I was thinking in much broader terms; not how many things one might or might not have done or achieved, but how true to the self one manages to be; how authentic.

Yes, I realised that.

You could have lists of achievements and brave deeds as long as your arm but if you're not content in yourself - in who you are - then it's all for nothing.

So very true. Often the highest achievers are the most unhappy. It’s almost like a drug addiction, they’re forever looking for the next fix/high.

That is not to say that means everything must go to plan - not at all - after all life is all about things going awry most of the time - it's much more about how you react to that and feeling that you know how you want to be, and that you can be true to that.

One of the hardest things of all.

There is something very tragic about someone who dies in the turmoil of trying to find that peace of who they are - of feeling they are lost...

:73: :73: :73:

Now that is a difficult thing to explore as it often takes a lifetime for most people to really know themselves and that is the great adventure, as long as you feel you're making progress and don't lose your way completely.


This is when it gets really complicated. How do we measure progress? Is progress always necessary? Losing one way - is that always or necessarily a bad thing, or could that exploration of unchartered and treacherous territories lead to deeper understanding in the long run? Could the negative (“this is not a path that I enjoy” “this is not me”) be also very informative even if there’s a price to pay? Some people seem to need to hit a brick wall or fall into a deep pit before they realise what they need to do next.

I think much of "Fear" is connected with the worry of loss - your loved ones, your purpose, your sense of belonging, your home, your freedom, or of failure (although that is connected to the others). Are your darker tones somewhere there? I totally understand where you are coming from - in a way your question "where am I without my choir?" is similar to the thistle fairy without its dance.

Yes, that’s a very good comparison. I guess my experience of it was not exactly Fear, more like deep Sorrow and a sense of Loss, like you’ve described. Not frightened of losing something but having lost it already.

The problem is with fear is that it often doesn't have a sense of perspective; if given a chance it can possess you and what might have seemed on the "lighter" tones of Fear becomes as dark as anything you can imagine. In total darkness there are no shades of grey.


That is a very perceptive way of describing how things can spiral out of control very rapidly. It’s those damned Thoughts again, that we need to keep at bay before they get their hooks into us.

This feeling of underachieving is a curse for most people, if we let it.
I’m probably sounding like a broken record but mindfulness is such a great help in coming to friendly terms with this issue. Of course, it will never stop raising its head. But good to have ways to tame the beast!


Absolutely!!!! :72:

I fear :57: I am prattling on now in realms that are very hard to express well and, of course, I totally agree with you about mindfulness and the fact that we should focus on what we have achieved and not
what we haven't. :72:

A couple of interesting quotes about "comparison" -


“Comparison is the thief of joy.” Theodore Roosevelt

“I will not reason and compare: my business is to create.” William Blake


I fancy NR quoted one of these somewhere else in the harbour.
Aren’t they just brilliant? I especially like the first one, so very very true.

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Lori
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:35 pm

Fascinating convo, ladies, regarding all this poem has spawned regarding fear and basically the human condition with the interplay of processing the various stages of our lives and what we value, protect, and strive for.

...once fear gets a hold on you it won't let you go - it "guards/dominates" you in a possessive way that becomes destructive even though it may have come in a protective guise.

I'm taken by the concept that fear begins at times as a protective and calming entity, and then digs in and attaches itself much like a parasite eating its host. I think mindfulness is really helpful in the throes of this type of emotion. (Mz. A, we never tire of the mindfulness insertion as it is very apropos in so many areas.)

To view fear as an emotion from which we can learn and grow is helpful but very hard to immediately bring into play. I find time reveals the lessons within. Some of us are more "works in progress" than others. I struggle, but generally bob back to the surface. The thought of people passing away who are still struggling deeply with who they are is abjectly sad. We all deal with this quandary to an extent, but the lucky ones are able to navigate through the spider webs and perhaps avoid being thistle fairies stuck there for long!

It makes me think of those who are "designed for flight not fight" in an even sadder way as they struggle the hardest. However, in spite of the little floating thistle's bad ending, this line also holds a positive - I would rather be designed for flight, personally.

Thank you for sharing the poem, Mz. K., and elaborating on your prompts and thoughts. It was all laid out there beautifully and creatively. Your reviewers didn't impress me much. I am assuming the one who didn't understand the mirror reference is 16 years old...

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Dee
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:51 am

I'm taken by the concept that fear begins at times as a protective and calming entity, and then digs in and attaches itself much like a parasite eating its host. I think mindfulness is really helpful in the throes of this type of emotion. (Mz. A, we never tire of the mindfulness insertion as it is very apropos in so many areas.)
Phew, thanks for the go ahead!

Yes, this is a very apt description of what's happening in the mind. Perfectly calm and happy thoughts get infiltrated with dark and anxious ones, leading to experiencing fear. Mindfulness teaches us to recognise this process and stop it in its tracks. When we learn to treat thoughts as nothing more than thoughts, - mostly about things that might or might not happen or have happened -, we can eliminate an awful lot of our suffering.

Examining thoughts and emotions as such, with some perspective and detachment, allows us to know and control them better. Which is exactly what we do when we write poetry or song lyrics, right? We are basically doing a mindfulness meditation!


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Peggy
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:39 pm

Dee wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:21 am
I've chosen a view of the sea, at sunset, in Whitby. My abstract noun is 'identity'.


Image

the message

waves roll darker clouds sink deeper
silence settles broken by a seagull calling
for nothing in particular and i wonder if
she is still a mother if her chicks have fledged

burning streaks score the falling sky
solitude sips slowly into the deserted dunes like runes
like cinderella days tallied on the walls of my cell locked
inside my own head

in the ocean of the pandemic
who am i now tell me
without my choir

twinkling lights from a bold
faraway fishing boat perhaps
are sending me a sign
i try so hard to decipher

search for the meaning like kids
comb the beach for treasure
fossils shells and a heart shaped stone
as the tide is soundlessly slipping away

and the memory of wet sand in my hands
whispers to my aching feet
come walk on me just come and walk on me now
I love this poem, Dee, might even be my favourite one from you 😊 The more I read it the more I like it and the deeper I feel the pain of the poet searching for herself, for the meaning of her life, wanting to be useful for the world. I can feel the loneliness, the emptiness, the hope and effort!
I really like how you mastered your new knowledge with the line endings 😊
There are only 2 slight points where I always get stuck when reading. The first is the word pandemic and the second is the word meaning, both are too concrete for me. I would have been more puzzled if meaning is not named in the poem but I - as a reader – have to „understand” it from the whole of the poem.

These details especially caught my attention: darker-deeper, callING for nothING, burning-falling, silence settles broken, cinderella days…, dunes like runes. Then „inside my own head” strikes like a hammer!

I love how you consequently interwave your feelings with the seashore images – seagull, boat, fossils, etc – that lead up to the very powerful ending with the sand begging!!!

I seem to notice how the „motherhood” motive reappears shaping an arch/ hoop from the seagull/air to the sand/(mother) earth

Finally the shared feelings of you and other parts of nature give me a sense of unity that can be found under the pain. It is soothing, it gives stability – like a mother 😊. Mother Universe.
:sign0144:

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Dee
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:20 pm

Peggy wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:39 pm
I love this poem, Dee, might even be my favourite one from you 😊 The more I read it the more I like it and the deeper I feel the pain of the poet searching for herself, for the meaning of her life, wanting to be useful for the world. I can feel the loneliness, the emptiness, the hope and effort!
I really like how you mastered your new knowledge with the line endings 😊

Thank you so much, Mz D for such a lovely reaction! I’m really grateful for taking the time to write this.
I’m delighted you liked the poem.



There are only 2 slight points where I always get stuck when reading. The first is the word pandemic and the second is the word meaning, both are too concrete for me. I would have been more puzzled if meaning is not named in the poem but I - as a reader – have to „understand” it from the whole of the poem.

The ‘pandemic’ is absolutely staying. I know it might feel overload right now, because this crisis dominates our lives, but looking back from a few years’ perspective, this word will give the poem its context. And it’s important to have that context for me, otherwise why would I be choirless?

The word ‘meaning’... yes, I see your point there. To ‘search for meaning’ is quite a cliché. I will think about that. Thank you.


These details especially caught my attention: darker-deeper, callING for nothING, burning-falling, silence settles broken, cinderella days…, dunes like runes. Then „inside my own head” strikes like a hammer!

I love how you consequently interwave your feelings with the seashore images – seagull, boat, fossils, etc – that lead up to the very powerful ending with the sand begging!!!

:x

I seem to notice how the „motherhood” motive reappears shaping an arch/ hoop from the seagull/air to the sand/(mother) earth

I must admit, this was not consciously done, but I like it, and it’s lovely you saw this connection here.

Finally the shared feelings of you and other parts of nature give me a sense of unity that can be found under the pain. It is soothing, it gives stability – like a mother 😊. Mother Universe.

This is very beautifully put, and perfectly encompasses what I felt that evening and what I was trying to capture in the poem. I felt held and comforted by how the landscape and the sky seemed to mirror my loss and sorrow, yet it also moved me forward.

:sign0144:

Can we keep you? :x

And can you please post your poem from the course too?

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Moonchime
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Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:18 am

Thank you so much Lori for this review - I love it when someone taps so beautifully into the emotions and images that one strives to communicate. It makes my day!!! :72: :x

This garden is brittle and void of the animation it held throughout time; smiling grandparents sitting and watching the antics of kids in the yard, wisps of kids, one knee up, dreaming in the daylight...chattering as they retie a shoe perhaps, loves and friends - all empty in this moment save the faded and moving cinematic footage of memories.
A wonderful description of the image as a faded and cinematic moment - it plays before my eyes as I read it. Interesting how "poetic" some the review comments are!!

#%@#!!!! (My mother doesn't approve of overt swearing so just know I lost it there for a second.) Then the sweet caterpillar and a scant moment of levity with the descriptive "hiccoughing".
:57: :57: :57:
I didn't approve of swearing but my daughter's use of it has changed my view slightly and now I feel it has a place sometimes...

Lori wrote:
To view fear as an emotion from which we can learn and grow is helpful but very hard to immediately bring into play. I find time reveals the lessons within. Some of us are more "works in progress" than others. I struggle, but generally bob back to the surface. The thought of people passing away who are still struggling deeply with who they are is abjectly sad. We all deal with this quandary to an extent, but the lucky ones are able to navigate through the spider webs and perhaps avoid being thistle fairies stuck there for long!


Yes I think fear is a difficult thing to learn from once it has a hold on you and I absolutely agree about some of us being more "works in progress" than others as you've hit the nail on the head in reference to how long you may be "stuck."

Dee wrote:
How do we measure progress? Is progress always necessary? Losing one way - is that always or necessarily a bad thing, or could that exploration of unchartered and treacherous territories lead to deeper understanding in the long run? Could the negative (“this is not a path that I enjoy” “this is not me”) be also very informative even if there’s a price to pay? Some people seem to need to hit a brick wall or fall into a deep pit before they realise what they need to do next.
Yes - definitely - all sorts of experiences are needed to help us find out who we are - and often it is the difficult times that reveal the most. However. How long you're stuck matters.
It is the human condition I think to hit walls and fall into pits, but if you can't get out - have no idea how to begin - get deeper and deeper and keep on falling for a long time so that you cannot function normally then - I would seriously question that as progress. If you emerge and are a better person for your experience than that is different - but sadly it isn't always the way.


Could it be time for a meditation? :72: :x

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Dee
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Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:03 am

i can only agree with the above, Mz K.

And lol, yes, it’s always time for meditation!

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Peggy
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Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:49 am

Dee wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:20 pm
Peggy wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:39 pm
I love this poem, Dee, might even be my favourite one from you 😊 The more I read it the more I like it and the deeper I feel the pain of the poet searching for herself, for the meaning of her life, wanting to be useful for the world. I can feel the loneliness, the emptiness, the hope and effort!
I really like how you mastered your new knowledge with the line endings 😊

Thank you so much, Mz D for such a lovely reaction! I’m really grateful for taking the time to write this.
I’m delighted you liked the poem.



There are only 2 slight points where I always get stuck when reading. The first is the word pandemic and the second is the word meaning, both are too concrete for me. I would have been more puzzled if meaning is not named in the poem but I - as a reader – have to „understand” it from the whole of the poem.

The ‘pandemic’ is absolutely staying. I know it might feel overload right now, because this crisis dominates our lives, but looking back from a few years’ perspective, this word will give the poem its context. And it’s important to have that context for me, otherwise why would I be choirless?

The word ‘meaning’... yes, I see your point there. To ‘search for meaning’ is quite a cliché. I will think about that. Thank you.


These details especially caught my attention: darker-deeper, callING for nothING, burning-falling, silence settles broken, cinderella days…, dunes like runes. Then „inside my own head” strikes like a hammer!

I love how you consequently interwave your feelings with the seashore images – seagull, boat, fossils, etc – that lead up to the very powerful ending with the sand begging!!!

:x

I seem to notice how the „motherhood” motive reappears shaping an arch/ hoop from the seagull/air to the sand/(mother) earth

I must admit, this was not consciously done, but I like it, and it’s lovely you saw this connection here.

Finally the shared feelings of you and other parts of nature give me a sense of unity that can be found under the pain. It is soothing, it gives stability – like a mother 😊. Mother Universe.

This is very beautifully put, and perfectly encompasses what I felt that evening and what I was trying to capture in the poem. I felt held and comforted by how the landscape and the sky seemed to mirror my loss and sorrow, yet it also moved me forward.

:sign0144:

Can we keep you? :x

And can you please post your poem from the course too?
Dear Dee, I am happy that you found useful bits in my comments :-) I still feel hopless with the posting, but I will try to post my poem somehow. Before posting first I planned to react to the poems of the two other ladies, but I will not be able to do it for 1-2 weeks unfortunately. So, if you insist, first I post mine :-)
:sign0144:

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